kidd:
i'm not sure, jeremy, some are first drafts of scripts, some transcripts,
some shooting scripts
This transcript starts a couple of minutes into the discussion.
kidd:
i'm not sure, jeremy, some are first drafts of scripts, some transcripts,
some shooting scripts
david: The mad people at Wollongong Uni are on their way.
GeorgeW: However you obtain them, reading scripts is prob. the best way to learn the business.
Jeremy: We'll be welcoming them with open arms!
Jeremy: Kidd: Are they mostly recent scripts, or are there a lot of public domain ones?
kidd: they seem pretty open about the scripts, not like they're doing anything illegal
Shaggy (~TCFuser@130.160.170.203) has joined channel #SCREENchat
Brent (~bdavis@130.160.196.41) has joined channel #SCREENchat
GeorgeW: One place to order them in hard copy is script City in LA.
kidd: ummm..some old ones, lots of Raiders of the Lost Ark kinda stuff, Quentin Tarantino, Terminator
Jeremy: Hey, Brent and Shaggy...we're just getting going.
david: Wild weather down here - just like the twisters in Tuscaloosa.
Shaggy: Twisters?
Deano (~drk02@130.130.43.50) has joined channel #SCREENchat
Jeremy: Yipes: Anyone blown away?
Brent: I think I'm here and set.
Shaggy: That you are, Brent my boy
marcia (~marcia@206.243.136.7) has joined channel #SCREENchat
david: Not yet, but walking from my car to the lab was fun.
scott: How long have you all been on Jeremy?
Jeremy: Just a few mins, Scott.
marcia: Hi everyone.
Deano: hello
GeorgeW: lo, Marcia
Jeremy: Hey, Marcia, anyone from SCRNWRT coming by tonight?
marcia: I don't know. I posted a reminder this weekend.
kidd: hi there, Marcia
marcia: How are you doing, Kidd. It's been a while.
Phil (~revdoc@130.130.68.102) has joined channel #SCREENchat
kidd: yeah, kinda dropped out for awhile, trying to get some writing done and the other kind of work too
GeorgeW: Is anyone trapped at the moment in the middle of a second act from hell?
Celtic (~java@139.102.68.111) has joined channel #SCREENchat
kidd: i wish i was that far, george
Brent: Do you mean literally or figuratvely
marcia: I'm trapped in deciding what to put in the second act.
marcia: The one I'm writing I'm fine on. It's the next one - I have a premise, a beginning and an end, but no middle yet.
GeorgeW: Literally. #2 is always the worst. People seem to come up with great openings and killer endings, and nothing in between.
Kate (~jzsd8@130.130.71.103) has joined channel #SCREENchat
Jeremy checks his watch.
marcia: Hi Kate.
david: Hi Kate!
Jeremy: Right on time, Kate.
Deano: Ho, Kate
Jeremy: It's just a few mins after 8:00 in the evening here in Tuscaloosa.
Shaggy: Kate, my dear - How are you?
Jeremy: Thought I might take a sec to introduce our guest officially...
Jeremy: ...and then we can get started with the chattin'!
Jeremy: George is a professor in the English Dept here at the Univervisty of Albama.
Jeremy: He's taught scriptwriting here for 15 years.
Jeremy: And he's written a pile of scripts himself.
Jeremy: Several have been made into PBS docs--
Jeremy: on folks like Melville, Proust, Faulkner...as well as religious freedom.
Jeremy: Currently a script of his, ON THE EDGE OF THE BONFIRE is "in development" in Hollywood.
Jeremy: George: Welcome to SCREENchat!
Mez (~mezandwalt@203.20.13.138) has joined channel #SCREENchat
marcia: Thanks for having us, George and Jeremy.
GeorgeW: thanks, happy to address questions as best I can or just listen.
Jeremy: We'll take questions on any aspect of screenwriting.
marcia: You raised the question of the second act. Maybe that's a place to start.
Jeremy: There's no set agenda tonight...
GeorgeW: second acts gotta build; that's the hardest thing about them, keeping our interest up.
GI: George, when a script is "in development," are you in on the development? What is the process?
GeorgeW: And that in turn develops from knowing where you';re going befgore you start.
melt (~melt@130.130.43.62) has joined channel #SCREENchat
GeorgeW: yes, in dev. basically means someone likes what they've seen and wants some changes.
Brent: Why does a screenwriter have to worry about acts,when a novelist just sits down and writes? I mean, what's all this with acts and plot points? Why are screenplays so bound to structure?
GeorgeW: Sometimes it means $ upfront, sometimes not.
GeorgeW: Calm down, Brent.
GeorgeW: Scripts are bound to structure because all dramatic writing is so bound--in one way or another.
melt: yeahh..
melt: beeffy?
Jeremy: does it seems that scripts are more highly structured than, say, plays or novels?
GeorgeW: That is, dramatic writing is fundamentally more of a `game' than [most] fiction.
Mez: GeorgeW>>Can u define what you mean by "game"?
GeorgeW: yes, the best exposure I ever had to screenplay writing is by Robt. McKee whose course is called Story Structure.
Jeremy: Is McKee himself a succesful scriptwriter?
Jeremy: Has his work been made into films?
Zoe (~alexc@203.2.192.162) has joined channel #SCREENchat
GeorgeW: By game, I mean clever manipulation of an audience's attention and expectation--with the help of actors. Like Shakespeare.
GeorgeW: Mckee has done some successful work, but he's become best known as a teaching guru who does his sev. day course all over the place. I took it in NY.
Kate: George, aren't there two different (connected) factors here: storytelling as manipulation vs. storytelling as somehow natural to human communication
Kate: It's a chicken and egg thing, isn't it?
GeorgeW: Anyway, Mckee argues that everything in screenwriting is structure, and the rest is the drapery. William Goldman says the same. I think thety're right.
GeorgeW: The trick, Kate, is to manipulate without appearing to. Find dramatic rhytn therehms and exploit them. Surprise us.
Brent: So the novelist sits down and writes. The screenwriter reshuffles index cards and works on an outline.
Jeremy: You sound bitter, Brent.
GeorgeW: Yes, Brent, remember?
Jeremy remembers the screenplays of Brent's that he's read and enjoyed.
GeorgeW: Many screenwriters do work with scene cards. Whatever gets the job done.
marcia: Brent, can you name unstructured movies as among your top 10?
Brent: No, not bitter. It's all fun. But the two forms are different, and I still am trying to figure out how.
Signoff: melt (Leaving)
GeorgeW: The thing to remember is that all dramatic writing is highly intolerant of digressions.
Brent: No. In fact, I like very structured novels.
Kate: George, these "dramatic rhythms" that you find and exploit -- are they natural, in your view?
Jeremy explains that Brent is also an unpublished screenwriter, but that his novel, THE SPELLING BEE, is due out this fall!
GeorgeW: Drama--think of the name--wants to push relentless forward, like it or not. Then when you want it to breathe, it can.
marcia: Congratulations, Brent.
Emily (~emangigaa@206.149.122.173) has joined channel #SCREENchat
GeorgeW: Natural in the sense of set it up, pay it off. Raise an expectation, fulfill it.
Jeremy: 'Course structure is also a matter of taste.
Deano: Novel/cinema I think a difference lies in creation/showing. One is working from the imagination up (novel) wher as the other is working from a visual up
GeorgeW: Watch a few good films [even bad films] closely, and you'll see those expectations planted and then paid off again and again.
Jeremy: Classical structure is one thing, but then there's Godard...and Antonioni...and Jarmusch...and...
Kate: Deano, why do you say that cinema is working from a visual up?
GeorgeW: Yes, I'm talking chiefly about American film making here.
Kate: Isn't it working from a screenplay up?
Mez thinks Jeremy has a valid point...
Shaggy: Right on, Kate
GeorgeW: But Europeans, I'm told, are increasingly interested in the moral formal writing process.
GeorgeW: more formal, that is.
Jeremy: I like it better as "moral formal".
Mez: GW>>What about the rest of the Globe?
scott: Collaboration in film requires rigorous structure, whereas novelists don't have to worry about providing material for others to work off of.
Kate outs herself as a closet European
Kate: Moral? hmmmm ...
Signoff: david (Leaving)
GeorgeW: Scott, are you saying the collaboration process requires structure?
Kate: Oh *more* ...
GeorgeW: Mez, the rest of the globe?
scott: Well, I think that structure is needed from a script because the drapery is often provided by acting style, direction, etc.
scott: And the structure provides a framework for this.
david (~dwk01@130.130.43.47) has joined channel #SCREENchat
Mez: GW>>Well screenwriting as non restricted to a largely european ethic/tradition...just curious...
GeorgeW: Scott, yes, and by because audiences are both smart and restless, accustomed to moving the story along, for better or worse.
david: Gee, I hate it when that happens.
GeorgeW: Mez, I don't know much about, say, Japanese cinema, with a few exceptions, or Indian, ditto.
scott: GeorgeW: Certainly, the manipulation has to be there, but I think that is only one function of structure.
GeorgeW: talk to me.
GeorgeW: I mean `benign manipulation' of course.
Kate: George, I'm wondering if that sense of custom comes from screenwriting itself
GeorgeW: custom?
Jeremy: TV scripts for sitcoms/soaps contain almost nothing but dialogue--no camera directions and very little blocking.
GI: Let's get back to the second act. What do you do to get unstuck?
Kate: And I think I'm wondering about what other customs haven't been accounted for, or explored?
Mez: Hmmm...just wondering if the highly formatted structure of a screenplay could act to limit any more "out there" forms of creativity or expression..
Jeremy: So, in TV the structure that the script provide is purely *verbal*.
GeorgeW: One one way to get unstuck is to use, sorry, the cards, and go back and figure out what the hell the story is you wish to tell.
scott: Mez: I think that while structure fosters, it also has to limit by nature.
GeorgeW: You might check out a book by Linda Seger callled Making a Good Script Great.
Jeremy: Does this reliance upon the verbal lend itself then to certain structures.
Jeremy: If a scriptwriter were instead working with images--say, storyboarding software--would the structure be different?
GeorgeW: Jeremy, it's gotta be decipherable.
scott: Jeremy: I think there is a big difference between the verbal aspect of sitcom and that of soap opera.
Jeremy: How so, Scott?
GeorgeW: Structure has actually become a kind of mantra in H-wood.
Kate: Jeremy, I think you're right ... something like Y&R seems much more choral in its structure
Kate: Er ... could we say polyphonic?
scott: Soap opera often has sequences of chase seens, etc.
GeorgeW: polymorphic?
scott: And you rarely see such digressions in sitcom.
Jeremy: Soap opera--outside of sweeps weeks--is still pretty studio bound.
Jeremy: ...which means few chase scenes.
david: Sweeps weeks?
Jeremy: Weeks during which ratings in the US are taken.
GeorgeW: Back to an earlier ? My advice is to spend as much time as possible on what amounts to pre-production, script-wise.
scott: Jeremy: this is true. I'm just remembering back to my Luke and Laura days...
Shaggy: Scott - but those scenes are done in medium shots or close ups, which fuel off of dialogue
david: Ah, thank you, Jeremy.
Emily: What do you mean by pre-production?
GeorgeW: What you do do before you actually write: FADE IN
scott: Shaggy: Again, I was thinking of Gen. Hosp. which was atypical I suppose.
Kate: Jeremy: plus in soaps dramatic tension seems to be created as much by confinement scenes as by chase scenes
Jeremy: It's been interesting to me to see US sitcoms going outside the studio, breaking the rules by doing exterior scenes.
GeorgeW: Try writing a treatment. Is that term familiar to all?
Deano: so do these 'sweep weeks' affect the structure of script writing. As in the stories need to be pacier, or excitinger or...
david: I'm still in pre-production for a video short film I'm working on with two friends - we started in January!
Kate: I'm thinking of all those characters who spend episodes at a time locked in cupboards or cellars
Marg (~mn@130.130.41.116) has joined channel #SCREENchat
Jeremy: Emily: pre-production is the time spent leading up to actual shooting. Shooting is "production" and editing and the rest is "post-production."
Shaggy: Marg-talk to me
david: Hi Marg, sorry about the short film on the weekend.
scott: Kate: locked away from talking!
Jeremy: Sweeps weeks episodes are definitely different from the rest of the run.
marcia: Whenever there's a short lull (if ever :)), I have a very very very practical question. For those of you who have been produced, how did you get there? If with an agent, how did you get the agent?
GeorgeW: Gotta have an agent, just about.
Jeremy: The US nets do the hottest stories then; and soaps often do special locaiton work.
marcia: How did you get the agent?
GeorgeW: Trouble is, like Groucho said, I wouldn't want to be represented by agent who'd have me.
Shaggy: Yes, George, HOW?
GeorgeW: Or nearly that, anyway.
Brent: If you don't have credits, its hard to get an agent. Who will invest several million in a script written by an unkown?
Jeremy would invest in your scripts, Brent!
marcia: But those of you who have an agent, how did you get it.
Shaggy: Good point Brent
Emily: So you write a treatment before you write the screenplay? Does it ever change from the treatment you would write after you've written the script?
GeorgeW: The American Writers Guilds E & W will provide lists of agents who'll look at unsol. material.
Kate: Brent, ask an Australian ;)
GeorgeW: But the best thing you can do is get to someone through someone.
Deano: J: Just for those weeks? What actually time are we talking here? One week? Several one weeks a year?
david: Does anyone want to invest in my video short film - I need about $100 for editing.
Jeremy: The ironic thing is that directors/producers/agents are constantly complaining about there being "no good scripts" out there.
Brent: George, you just about gotta be out there to sell a script, right?
Shaggy: David - what's it about?
Deano: David: What's the return?
marcia: My question is still pending. For those of you who have an agent, how did YOU get him or her?
Shaggy: And what's the return
GeorgeW: Emily, the treatment represents the best you can do at that moment, but the script will change much after that.
david: Boy meets girl, gets her phone number, loses it.
GeorgeW: I like to go from treatment to cards to screenplay.
Shaggy: David - continue
Brent: I had an agent once--he was in Salt Lake City.
Jeremy: Deano: the sweeps period happens twice a year, goes on for one week each time.
david: The return? Er, a 'thank you' credit at the end of the film.
GeorgeW: Salt Lake? Very helpful.
Brent: Yeah, right.
kidd: i'm curious if anyone got a chance to read "Why Hollywood Can't Write" in this week's Entertainment Weekly?
Brent: But he was the only one I could get.
Deano: George, I have trouble with dialogue. Now should I not worry about it and concerntrate on structure? Or are they interrelated?
GeorgeW: What'd it say?
david: Shaggy, I would love to reveal all, but if you can make Wollongong for Oct. 29th, you can see it then.
Jeremy reaches behind him and pulls EW from his bag.
david: Otherwise, I can't reveal the ending - people in this lab are going to see it then.
marcia: No, kidd, but I'll look for it.
Jeremy: Kidd, I saw it but haven't read it yet.
GeorgeW: Gotta give good dialogue, but it can be learned, or improved , at least. Watch films. Read scripts.
Kate: Kidd, what is it that Hollywood can't write?
Shaggy: Plane fair, my boy - PLANE FAIR!!!
kidd: it cited different instances in which the studio, the actors, the directors, and the writers themselves were to blame for bad screenplays, the constant rewriting caused by studios wanted to cover their rears
Deano: Gerge>> Ok, but at what stage should you be working on dialogue. Right from the start?
david: Oh yeah, I can really afford to pay someone's plane fare, when I need a $100 for editing.
Kate: What constitutes a bad screenplay?
Shaggy: Just thought I'd try
GeorgeW: On dialogue: most novices overwrite. Particularly those with a fiction background.
Deano: Sorry about the gerge George!
Signoff: Phil (Connection reset by peer)
kidd: no plot, dead dialogue
Brent: Bad? Anything with Chevy Chase.
Shaggy: David - Title?
GeorgeW: Kate, a bad screenplay is one that you put down after 10 pages.
melt (~melt@130.130.43.62) has joined channel #SCREENchat
Emily: On overwriting dialogue- too much or too long?
GeorgeW: That's about how long you've got to grab a low-paid reader.
david: Shaggy, I still need a title - I might be editing tomorrow, and I still don't have a title.
Kate: George, would you say the good/bad balance is weighted towards structure or dialogue?
Jeremy: On re-writing: It seems to me that often the media blame bad scripts on re-writing or writing by committee, but...
GeorgeW: low-paid, over-educated, jaded, bored etc. reader
Brent: George, when you get a sec. All the collaboration. Everyone re-writing your stuff. HOw do you keep that from driving you nuts?
Shaggy: David - keep me posted - sounds quite interesting
kidd: the article said that things won't change as long as Hollywood sells tickets, best to go the independent route and get it done right instead of going for the $$$
GeorgeW: Brent,. I don't.
scott: David: _Indecent Obfuscation_
Kate: Kidd, who wrote the article? Staff writer? Interested party?
Jeremy: ...it seems to me that this is an aesthetic judgment born from Romantic notions of the artist as a lone figure in his/her garrett, scratching lines out with a quill pen.
GeorgeW: Kate, I don't comprehend
david: Just butt out, Scott, who asked you?
marcia: Tell you what, kidd. I'll go for the $$$ first time and then go independent. That's a fair compromise.
kidd: I believe just a staff write, Kate, but I am not sure
GeorgeW: Do it, Maarcia.
scott loweres his head, turns his back on david, and whimpers.
Kate: George, what I mean is: what grabs the reader? Prospect of spectacle, good dialogue, well balanced plot -- is one element more significant?
Jeremy: Collaborative work need not necessisarily be bad work.
Jeremy: Look at the Chartres Cathedral--done over centuries by numerous artists.
Brent: Nor is collaborative work necessarily good. Too many cooks...or is it kooks?
david: How important is the 'pitch' and 'coverage' for pushing scripts?
GeorgeW: Kate, I wish I could be more specific, but something in that first 10 pages that's `fresh' they like to say, that grabs the reader, that doesn't seem turgid and familiar and hackneyed.
Kate: Australian cinema/TV, for example, has much less money to spend on explosions, but talk is cheap
marcia: I took a great program last year by 1/2 the writing team of Robocop. Thatworked out just fine.
GeorgeW: The good pitcher lives for ever.
GeorgeW: Coverage is written by those bored creeps, cf. above.
Kate: George, it must be hard to balance "fresh" with the established conventions of structure -- what do you think?
GeorgeW: A pitch is a live telling of the story to studio execs, etc. who, you hope, will get it.
scott: So, there's an art to 'pitching', a la _The Player_?
GeorgeW: and like it.,
GeorgeW: and pay for it,.
Jeremy: George: You might define what H-wood means by "coverage".
Deano: Kate, that's where spectacle comes in
GeorgeW: Coverage is a one page slice up,.
david: I read that the pitch for "Twins", was Ivan Reitman walking in to an office, sitting down and saying: "Schwarzanegger. DeVito. Twins." And then walking out.
Kate: I'm thinking of those Fatal Attraction endings where the dead villain comes back for one last try -- the first time we saw them, they were genuinely jumpy, but now they have developed into a routine
GeorgeW: One paragraph on what the story is. One para. on wheether the person liked it.
GeorgeW: Plus a rec. for future action.
Mez: Hang on..with "good" and "bad" screenplays, do we mean those that make money as opposed to those that don't? Or those that Have "artistic integrity"(whatever the hell that means? I'm confused...
Jeremy: Coverage is written by readers within the studio for the benefit of the execs.
david: I also heard that one studio exec. wanted coverage on a three-page treatment.
GeorgeW: I would have bought the devito thing.
GeorgeW: Mez, not the ones that make money, for me, but the ones that tell a helluva story.
GeorgeW: I have a friend in H-wood who was told once, Listen, honey, this is show business, not show art.
david: And for "Dragnet" (the movie), the director walked in, sat Dan Akroyd down in a chair, pointed at Akroyd's head and hummed the "Dragnet" theme.
Jeremy: Coverage often also gets leaked outside the studioes.
Deano: So coverage is where they make this staement of hybridity about what other movies/stories your piece is likened to?
Mez: H-Wood and art in a sentence...mutally exclusive?:)
Emily: What chance do "low" concept scripts that do tell a great story have?
david: Deano, yes!
scott: I'm thinking I'm going to get Bandaras, sit him down, give him a gun, and point it at the exec. That should get a deal.
GeorgeW: Well, Deano, that's one way. You have to consider the clientele you're talking to.
Jeremy: Coverage, at some studios, is very structure--with numbers assigned to certain qualities by the readers.
david: Is it true that in a year about 600 of the 27,000 scripts submitted are turned in to films?
Jeremy: 600 sounds high.
david: Submitted to the MPAA that is.
GeorgeW: 600 seems high, but there is a lot of what they call `product' out there now.
Jeremy: To the MPAA? Or the Writers Guild?
marcia: Could 600 include those that are optioned?
david: Yes, the Writer's Guild, my apologies.
Jeremy: George, maybe you could talk about whether aspiring scriptwriters should copyright their work.
GeorgeW: in a word, yes.
Deano: I heard a story that some execs read a few pages at the start, thumb through to page thirty then again to sixty just to look at these supposed turning points.
GeorgeW: You can't be too well protected.
GeorgeW: Also, the Writers Guilds will register a script for not much $.
david: Jack Valenti (head of MPAA) said 600, in an interview here. Justifying why some 'dodgy' films slip through.
Mez thinks Deano heard that from brian H...like she did...;)
GeorgeW: 600 it is, then.
Brent: George, when in the process does teh director "own" the script? After the sale, the writer is often out of it, right?
GeorgeW: Every chimp in the zoo . . .
GeorgeW: Brent, someone else owns the script when you sell it to her.
Deano nods his head in Mez's direction, grinning
GeorgeW: And yes, the writer is often bought out, another writer brought in to punch it up, etc.
Brent: Yeah, but they don't want your advice just because you wrote it.
GeorgeW: H-wood is full of rich script doctors.
david: What is the minimum price for scripts bought by the Guild? $30,000?
GeorgeW: something like that.
Jeremy: Thinking about becoming one (a rich script doctor), George?
GeorgeW: I wish.
marcia: WGA has a site on the internet with its full range of prices.
GeorgeW: If you have a good agent [and a good screenplay] you can hang on for rewrites and polishes.
GeorgeW: Because there will always be r and p.
Brent: I like the irony. This is a collaborative medium, but Mr. Writer, we can't use you, so you're not going to get one on those neat little chairs on the set.
GeorgeW: You'd just be in the way, Brent.
Brent: You sound like my mother, George.
Jeremy notes what he's getting Brent for Christmas.
GeorgeW: Brent, you gotta get over this artiste shit.
Mez: Brent>>The old dilemma of who has the creative control...dirctor vs writer...
marcia: George, can I quote you?
david: How important is a "story by" credit in a film? e.g. Tarantino's "story by" credit for NBK, after Oliver Stone helped 're-write' it?
Jeremy: ...producer...
GeorgeW: The writer NEVER has artistic control.
Emily: Is everyone still there?
GeorgeW: Credits are indispensable. Take a story credit if that's alla you can get.
kidd: sounds like, more and more, the "stars" have the control
Signoff: Emily (Connection reset by peer)
Zoe: and isn't that why a lot of writers turn directors? or the other way around.. to have more control over the film?
GeorgeW: Control is what everyone is films seeks.
Kirk (~kbrennan@128.125.222.21) has joined channel #SCREENchat
GeorgeW: But only those who shape the flow of the dough can get it.
GeorgeW: Kate, did you have a ? I didn't answer?
Signoff: Celtic (Leaving)
Celtic (~java@139.102.68.111) has joined channel #SCREENchat
Signoff: Brent (Connection reset by peer)
Emily (~emangigaa@206.149.120.159) has joined channel #SCREENchat
marcia: George, one or two of the people from U. of Ala, I think, mentioned index cards. Do you teach that a technique?
kidd: right now I'm reading "The Devil's Candy"--a book about turning "Bonfire of the Vanities" into a film, what an eye-opener on how Hollywood works, I reccommend it
GeorgeW: +Marcia, I rec. it as one good way to keep the story moving.
marcia: Those would have a similar function to a beat sheet? Or not?
GeorgeW: Each card basically refers to a single scene,.
Phil (~revdoc@130.130.68.102) has joined channel #SCREENchat
Brent (~bdavis@130.160.196.41) has joined channel #SCREENchat
Kate: George, no, I think all my questions were answered ... but I may well be brooding on another one
GeorgeW: Yes, a beat sheet, but the cards are easier to throw away. Odd but helpful.
Kelley (~user01@204.188.47.215) has joined channel #SCREENchat
GeorgeW: I was told just this weekend in LA to develop a beat sheet for my rewrite of a finished screenplay.
Jeremy: A beat sheet?
marcia: I learned with a beat sheet approach, and I need it now.
GeorgeW: In a beat sheet, a line is given to each scene of a story.
Kirk: Isn't that a movie about breakdancing? (oh, that's Beat Street)
Signoff: Emily (Leaving)
GeorgeW: This lets others follow without too much detail. Any detail, actually.
marcia: Oh, I learned it that each action within a scene has a separate entry.
Emily (~emangigaa@206.149.120.159) has joined channel #SCREENchat
marcia: I don't mean each action; I mean each MAJOR action.
GeorgeW: Diff. strokes. With cards, I suggest you just tell yourself what happens in the scene. It's all for you, after all.
GeorgeW: Cards are basically reminders of this and dthen this, etc. The build, etc.
Jeremy checks his watch.
Mez: GeorgeW>>Am wondering if you could give a couple of e.g of what u consider Good films....as a type of benchmark...
Jeremy: We've got time for about fives minutes more of questions for George Wolfe, our visiting screenwriter.
Emily: Yes. All of a sudden I'm facing a blank screen with no imput. Others having trouble or is it just me?
GeorgeW: I liked the STORY of Fatal Attraction because it grabbed you and refusedto let go.
GeorgeW: Forget the politics of it.
GeorgeW: Also, Gallipoli.
GeorgeW: And Breaker Morant
Mez: Forget politics? Hmmmm......
Emily: Thanks. It's working ok now.
GeorgeW: I mean, just think of the effect of Fatal At. How it worked as a screenplay.
GeorgeW: Also Casablanca.
Jeremy: George: Do you also have recs of particularly good *scripts*.
GeorgeW: Chinatown.
Brent: Casablanca. Not a line of dialog wasted.
GeorgeW: The ones above. plus. . .
Jeremy: No wasted dialog--even though they didn't know what the ending would be when they started!
Deano wonders why anyone would want to shoot a line of dialogue
GeorgeW: Tender Mercies by Horton Foote.
marcia: What did you think of Brazil, George?
Kate: George, interesting that you have the Australians in there, as I was wondering what the effect of HW screenwriting traditions on other Anglo industries has been
GeorgeW: M.A.S.H.
scott is wondering what Deano means.
GeorgeW: Big Chill.
GeorgeW: Elephan Man.
GeorgeW: HW?
Deano: Scott>> wasted ala blown away. Waste him, kill him blah blah
Kate: Hollywood!
Mez: GW>>So bascically a good hero's journey type film?? With a plausible plot?
GeorgeW: Right. Sorry.
GeorgeW: Other Anglo industries?
Kate: Deano and Mez, what do you think the prospects are for Australian screenwriters
Deano: Not so sure
Kate: George, I'm thinking here of the Australian film revival and the fact that its primary influence was probably American cinema
kidd: thanks George, Jeremy, everyone, --very informative! Bye Marcia
GeorgeW: Mez, do you know The Writer's Journey book?
Mez: Hmmm...sad if u take me as an example!! (but then again I'm not a typical aussie sreenwriter..)
marcia: Bye, kidd.
Deano: Not as cutthroat I guess but also hard to get a view in
Signoff: kidd (Leaving)
GeorgeW: Kate, it looks as though the Am. Cin. is affecting everyone. I'm told 75% of Italian houses play only American films.
Mez: Um..maybe..not sure....
Kate: A while back you recommended that dialogue writers watch other movies, and I'm thinking that there's an issue here if you're an Australian writer watching American movies
Deano is shaking his head
Kate: Different cadences etc
kidd (~java@205.163.45.39) has joined channel #SCREENchat
Signoff: Zoe (Leaving)
Signoff: kidd (Leaving)
GeorgeW: Yes, but the tight, effective movement of dialogue I think transfers across cul. lines.
david: It's even worse, if you can't even convince Marg to be in your film.
Deano: Kate, australian producers are also watching am. movies
GeorgeW: Your writers in Breaker Morant etc. did/do wonderful work.
derk (~java@205.163.45.39) has joined channel #SCREENchat
Mez: GW>>Or blurs those cultural lines...(back to politics sorry!)
Kate: I'm remembering (not personally, of course) Will Hays saying back in the 1920s that Hollywood was speaking to the world in a universal language
Marg: ahem david
Marg: i would have been great you know
Kerryn (~kam03@130.130.133.200) has joined channel #SCREENchat
Signoff: Kerryn (Leaving)
GeorgeW: I coulda been a contender.
david: I know that, Marg.
Signoff: derk (Leaving)
marcia: George, what did you think of Brazil?
GeorgeW: Hot, wet.
Kerryn (~kam03@130.130.133.200) has joined channel #SCREENchat
Kate: David, you know the story of the TV producers who missed out on Mel Gibson ...
GeorgeW: Brazil?
david: Long live Terry Gilliam!
marcia: The movie.
GeorgeW: Sorry, didn't see it.
Mez: Marcia>>if it's any help I loved Brazil!!*grin*
Mez: and 12 Monkeys....
Deano: George, what about The Usual Suspects?
Kerryn: 12 Monkeys was ace!
Marg: david your next movie must be about this..love and other technologies
Kate: GeorgeW, Breaker Morant aside, I think there are a number of other smaller Australian films that don't break into the US market because the dialogue is considered inaccessible outside Australia
GeorgeW: Suspects came andwent before I caught it. We live in Bama.
Celtic: Hello?
marcia: Brent, what did you think of Brazil; I'm thinking about how its form was not traditional.
Signoff: Brent (Connection reset by peer)
david: Only if you're the lead Marg.
Kerryn: Whoops, gotta go
Mez: Kate...2nd that....
GeorgeW: Kate. Yes. Ditto with some british films
Kerryn has left channel #SCREENchat
GeorgeW: Seems you all play sound differently.
Glenn: No such nick/channel
GeorgeW: Plus the slang eludes us, often.
Mez: and the humour....
Mez: sometimes...
Kate: That's the thing ... either we all talk American (George Orwell's fear) or we don't get to speak outside our own national borders
Deano: but not the kangaroos
Kate: Which is not to strike a hostile note, just a bemused one
david: The Scottish film "Small Faces" was shopped around in America. They said great, as long as Mia Farrow was the mother - so they made it in Scotland instead.
Mez: doulble plus good Kate :)
Signoff: Celtic (Leaving)
GeorgeW: But if an Aussi or Brit comes here, s/he can go forever on the accent alone. We're whores for it.
Celtic (~java@139.102.68.111) has joined channel #SCREENchat
scott: But don't the accent roles get taken up by just a few?
Jeremy checks his watch again.
Jeremy: We'll have to start winding this up...don't want to take advantage of George...
scott: We do!
GeorgeW: Take advantage. . .
marcia: Speak for yourself, Jeremy! :)
david: American obsession with British actors as villains - Alan Rickman and Jeremy Irons in Die Hards 1 and 3.
GeorgeW: Irons is the best.
Kate: And Joss Ackland
GeorgeW: I'd kill to write a part for him.
Shaggy: George - agreed
Mez: GW>>Me too...
Kate: Whereas Australians ... hmm
Shaggy: Irons is excellent
Jeremy: that's an interesting point: George, do you write with particular actors in mind?
GeorgeW: Nope.
GeorgeW: But it isn't a bad idea.
GeorgeW: Whatever let's you SEE the scene.
Jeremy: Ahhh...so it's a VISUAL process for you?
GeorgeW: Def,
GeorgeW: .
GeorgeW: without the J.
GeorgeW: It is not about words, by and large.
GeorgeW: Which is hard on writers.
Mez: The visual impact the words convey?
Jeremy: Do you also "hear" it in your head?
Deano: The difference with novels
GeorgeW: Yes, a good writer once told me the best training for screenwriting is acting.
GeorgeW: Taking over the persons of others. Many others.
GeorgeW: Screenwriters are essentially well-organized mimes.
Jeremy spits on mimes.
david looks out the window, sees the cyclone, thinks of Tuscaloosa.
scott says: Ah! Tuscaloosa.
Jeremy: Perhaps this would be an opportune time to thank George for coming down.
scott scott says: down with mimes!
Jeremy thanks George for coming down.
Deano percieves it as a computer generated cyclone and looks for the attractive woman running from it
scott is stuttering.
marcia: Thanks very much, George.
Shaggy: Scott - agreed!!!
Jeremy thanks everyone for participating and hopes they'll come back soon.
Emily: Thank you very much!
Deano: Your a legend George
Kate: Thanks George!
Shaggy: Damn the Mimes
GeorgeW: my pleasure.
Kate: George, can you come on down again??
Kelley: Thanks
Kirk applauds!
Celtic: Thanks George
marcia: Thanks for arranging all of this, Jeremy.
GeorgeW: go down or come down?
Shaggy: Yo da man George
david: Muchos gracias, Americanos.
Mez: At the risk of sounding hackneyed....thanx G...
Deano is miming his goodbye to George
Jeremy: Oh, Marcia, perhaps you could give out the info on the regular SCRNWRIT chat that goes on right now.
Kate: get down! ... er ... no, but we're trying to lure your Australian counterpart out here
GeorgeW: remember all, REWRITE.
melt waves bye bye
Jeremy is away (I am away from my computer)
Emily: Yes, thanks, Jeremy
Kelley: rewrite rewrite rewrite....
marcia: Jeremy, can I quote George, "Brent, you gotta get over this artiste shit"?
Signoff: Celtic (Leaving)
Jeremy: I'll leave the channel open: SCREENchat is always here for you.
Shaggy: I thought <melt> just melted away
Marg: good to meet you George, thanks.
Jeremy: George and I are gonna get on outta here.
marcia: Bye everyone!
Marg: Bye jeremy...
Jeremy marvels at that artiste shit.
Kate: Bye Jeremy -- and hope to see you next week!
scott: Thanks for your time George.
Kelley: bye Jeremy & George
Emily: Bye
Emily has left channel #SCREENchat
Signoff: marcia (Leaving)
Jeremy: Thanks everyone for a lively interchange!
Deano: thankyou jimbob
Kelley has left channel #SCREENchat
Deano: ID4
Mez: G'night Maryellen....
Kate: ID4?
scott: Seen it yet, Marg?
Deano: id4
Mez: id4-ever..?
Marg: er no I think I'm over it. Spoil away
Deano: What did you think about the british pilot scene kate?
Kate: Marg, check out Mez's posting to screentalk -- very funny, and gives you most of the plot
Kate: I thought all that was a bit Blackadderish for me
Marg: I think I can guess the plot
Mez: ..so u don't really need to see it at all!
Kate: But I was in love with the American President by that point ;)
scott: We win! There I said it!
Kate: "I'm a fighter pilot. I belong in the air." Whattaguy.
Deano: No reference to american entries into world wars etc?
Marg: I'm in love with him and I haven't seen him
Deano: I heard that about you marg
Kate: I'd like to know how Americans deal with all this ;)
Jeremy is away (I am away from my computer)
Deano: Therapy?
Jeremy is away (I am away from my computer)
Signoff: Mez (Connection reset by peer)
Kate: And where were the Australians? Where was John Howard? How come no one put a morse code call through to Tim Fischer???
Shaggy: Deal with all of what??
Shaggy: Kate?
Deano: Did anyone see Good News Week on Fri?
Jeremy is away (I am away from my computer)
Kate: Shaggy, I think if Australia made a film about Australia saving the Free World, it would be met with howls of disbelief
Mez (~mezandwalt@203.20.13.138) has joined channel #SCREENchat
Shaggy: Really? Because of...?
Kate: So it's easy for us to enjoy that image of the American presidency because it's just fun to us -- no investment in it.
Shaggy: AH - HAH!
Shaggy: Well put, Kate
scott: Glenn says: Crocodile Dundee IV: The cobber that saves the Earth!
Kate: But you're in an election year, and I'm thinking about the current US involvement in the Middle East for example (reported yesterday as "President Clinton is the leader of the Free World")
Mez: ..token President idea Kate? (only caught the last half)...
Kate: So it would seem to me that ID4 might be a shade less fantastic/ironic. What do you think?
Celtic (~java@139.102.68.111) has joined channel #SCREENchat
Shaggy: Clinton WANTS to be leader of the free world
Deano: The United States of Clinton
Jeremy is away (I am away from my computer)
Shaggy: Hopes to be leader of the free world
Mez: ....or vicarious removal president identifcation idea?
melt: *isI leader of the white free world.
Jeremy is away (I am away from my computer)
Kate: Mez, just the image of the president really -- something of course we don't have
Shaggy: He's leader of the free idiots!
Kate: Can you imagine the head of the Australian state taking to the air?
Signoff: GeorgeW (Quit)
Celtic: I've got a question of copyrights and permissions.
melt: and id question *free* as well
Kate: She'd need three maids of honour to hold her handbag while she was taking aim at the aliens
Mez: Kate>Well I could say "Propoganda" again but methinks I do protest too much eh?
david: And you're voting for who at the next election Shaggy?
Deano: I was rather hoping that Bill Pullman (the two Bills????) was going to sacrafice himself for the sake of the world and ram into the alien ship. I was sooooooooo dissapointed
scott: We could get Dick Smith into politics!
Mez: Deano>>me too...
Kate: In terms of cinema, I was interested to see that this President is a hero
Deano: Celtic>>What?
Kate: Not a source of weakness or corruption, or even a stand-in
Kate: A genuine WW2 hero president
scott: They don't make 'em like they used to.
Celtic: Several years ago, I heard a song sung by a folk singer. Since then I haven't been able to keep from "writing" a screenplay in my head
Marg: I try
melt: retro truth goodness and reliability seem to be fashionable.
Marg: oops
Celtic: In order to write and "sell" a script, do I need to get the permission of the song writer?
Kate: melt, I think that's it -- the Free World is getting a powerful message here
Deano: Have you tried looking out for the singer er song?
Signoff: GI (Connection reset by peer)
Signoff: Kate (Excess flood)
Kate (~jzsd8@130.130.71.103) has joined channel #SCREENchat
Celtic: Deano, I don't understand?
Deano: Celtic>> I'd say it depended either on how much idea you've taken or giving credit
Celtic: I'm following the song fairly closely. It's a three minute song and I'd like to write a full length script.
Deano: You'd wanna talk to the singer (if it is his song) and ask permission.
Deano: or find out who "owns" it
Deano: the song
Celtic: OK, thanks.
Kate: If the song is still in copyright, then you'd have to start there
scott has temporarily left the building.
david: Go write that script Celtic.
melt really waves bye bye..remember..*weve* got thhe bomb,,;p
Celtic: It one of those that just doesn't seem to want to leave me alone.
david: Scott has gone to smoke, so we can talk about him now.
Deano: I don't know. I think its important to get any copyright out of the way before embarking on a major script
Mez: Celtic>>Just don't make it a hero's journey.....
Signoff: melt (Leaving)
Jeremy slowly fades to black.
Signoff: Kirk (Connection reset by peer)
Jeremy: Good night all!
Kate: OK, I think I have to go. Next week we'll be back on the 12midday time slot, no topic as yet
Mez: night Jer...
Deano: goodnight
Kate: Jeremy, anything you want to say before fading out?
Kate: Admin stuff?
david: Bye, Jeremy, bye Tuscaloosans.
Jeremy: Look for a chat on How To Get Into Film School...
Jeremy: ...shooting for some time at the end of October.
david: Cool.
Signoff: Jeremy (snap)
david: Just when my video short film will be showing.
Kate: Time for lunch!
Phil has left channel #SCREENchat
Kate has left channel #SCREENchat
david: Are you buying Kate?
Mez: cheers all...
Signoff: Shaggy (Connection reset by peer)
Mez has left channel #SCREENchat
Deano is bowing to peer pressure and is leaving too
Signoff: Deano (Leaving)
Celtic: I'm a newbie in this. So I feel like I've got a bunch of stupid questions. But what's a "hero's journey"?
david has to go as well.
Marg is leaving too, and is sorry she can't answer celtic's question
Signoff: Marg (Leaving)
Shaggy (~TCFuser@130.160.170.203) has joined channel #SCREENchat
scott: dean talking here. Celtic>> Hero's journey is a way of looking at certain stories particularly westerns
Shaggy: Damn - got booted off again
david: Bye everyone, time for Scooby snacks.
Celtic: Like "High Noon?"
scott: Dean again.. Celtic>> The hero (protagonist) has a path (journey) along that path he faces several obstacles and at the end after defeating or over coming them he meets a resolution.
Celtic: got it. Thanks
scott: dean again.. It derives from anthropological studies on western cultures
david: Bye all.
Signoff: david (Leaving)
scott: Deano Celtic.. Check out Joseph Campell Hero of a Thousand faces
Celtic: OK
scott: Deano thanks scoot for use of his body and will now reliquish possession
Celtic: Deano> Are you with scott?
Shaggy: Adios all - I'm buggin' outta here - talk to y'all next week
Celtic: bye shaggy
Signoff: Shaggy (Quit)
Celtic: I guess I'm outta here too. Bye scott.
Signoff: Celtic (Leaving)